> Overall, I'll give you it's not (now) a DVR. But it IS a video on
> demand system,
> so from the rumblings I've found the thoughts aren't to have you load the
> sucker with anything you want - but to have the entire library on
> download-on-demand. So if you wanted to see American Chopper - you go order
> it up and it d/l's so that it's there when you're ready to watch. A DVR in
> that sense.
>
Ah of course, that makes sense. The only catch being it would have to stop
downloading while you are on Live just like marketplace downloads.
Shame that background downloading with the console off is such a waste of time
though as being able to do that while the console is not spinning its fans
would be useful.
> And DVR's today, such as the Sci Atlanta HD-DVR... suck royally? Stable?
> I haven't seen a clear HD picture from even Time Warner in a long time, the
> more they cram in there the more they downgrade the signal to fit into
> their bandwidth availability and we get waves and far worse - even on the
> DVR. So I can't go with ya there, DVR's are no better than what the 360
> 'could' do.
>
Hahaha, I didn't say DVRs were stable - they surely aren't. I was saying that
a game console playing a game while recording a HD programme in realtime
would be even worse.
> 3-Core AMD and a 500Ghz GPU and you're saying it can't play any games
> and record simultaneously? I'll be the first to admit it wouldn't be the
> best quality and one of the two would tend to suffer but the 360's doing
> background downloads now during gameplay. 'Bout the only place you'd hit
> walls would be online in a heavy game (GoW, CoD4, etc.) while trying to
> suck something down. Otherwise I've stacked video and more to download
> while playing titles both on and offline. Totally disagree with you there,
> the stupid thing does it right now as we speak.
>
> Only reason the 360 doesn't 'record' is because there's no programming
> for it? It downloads, that's recording to the HDD. So you instead have it
> snag and record to the HDD realtime if it were a DVR. I'm not getting how
> you're saying it can't do it or it's impossible when it does all this now
> as it sits - worst it'd need is a plug-in independent IPTV tuner to allow
> recording to occur while gameplay happens? Little box with a CPU/GPU that
> plugs into USB or expansion ports to take any pressure of the main CPU/GPU
> like we do on PC's? It's all possible, plausible, reality in some cases
> and awaiting programming in others. I said DVR in the sense that Cable and
> Sat need to 'tune' to channels to record. IPTV's totally different, but
> actually
> easier to manipulate!
>
I guess I was getting my lines crossed. What I meant was it couldn't do it at
the sort of bitrates you get on cable, sattelite, over the air or fibre
broadband. As it is now I haven't heard anyone get the 360 download much
over 500K/s even if they have 10/20Mbit broadband. This is likely by design
as once you start hitting higher bandwidth than that its likely to be
stealing CPU cycles and causing hard drive latency that would interfere with
gameplay.
Sure it could still be done, but it would really be detrimental to gameplay
and they aren't going to want to intentionally release a service that would
do that. They obvious are paranoid about that seeing as background downloads
stop when you go on live in any way shape or form, even when you know it
could handle it or for updating leaderboards which clearly it wouldn't be
problem.
> On the IM's, See I haven't noticed a major lag beyond the initial sign-in
> to XBL with that. Of course I have MSNIM for the most part and my
> dance card on there isn't loaded with 1,500 people either. If you've got
> a load of folks on yours, could possibly be why it's lagging out. I fully
> agree that sucks all the way around, regardless of quantity if that's all
> that's causing that issue.
>
> And no one says you'd have to use the 360 as a multi-function? You'd
> still have the chance to buy one outright and use it as just a regular game
> console - but the pricing and support should get better because now you
> have 10X the consoles out there thanks to the IPTV operators using them?
>
I'm not saying its a bad thing, in fact I am one of the people who likes my
console to do as much as possible - even if I do not use all those features.
However if those features are detrimental to its game-playing ability then I
do object to them.
Alex.
> On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 7:46 PM, Alex Atkin <yahoo@maewhitman.com> wrote:
> > A DVR/games console is certainly what I would consider the WORST idea.
> > Microsoft are aware of this I am sure which is why Windows Home Server
> > was invented. Well that and to make a lot more money for something you
> > can do for free with Linux.
> >
> > Firstly, from what I have read the 360 is NOT a DVR, it is an IPTV
> > client. You can watch streaming TV but you can't record it. Makes sense
> > because there's no way it could record a TV programme while playing a
> > game, even if it could it wouldn't be advisable as they would interfere
> > with each other. I am only just now risking doing heavy stuff on my Linux
> > machine while also having it setup as a DVR. However while recording
> > something important I certainly wouldn't run a game on it. When it comes
> > to multitasking, even a dedicated device struggled. Your average
> > dedicated DVR is hardware rock-solid stable at it. Everyone I know has
> > had problems with it. Even the tightly-closed BSkyB PVR boxes in the UK
> > (their custom software for use only with their sattelite service) are
> > pretty unreliable. Its not until I got the HD box that it finally
> > recorded correctly 99% of the time, the SD box would lockup about once a
> > week without warning requiring a power cycle. So yeah, you see what I
> > mean.
> >
> > Even worse, just look at how much more lag simply being signed in to
> > messenger puts on the 360 and that really shouldn't need much bandwidth
> > or CPU time. I had read that while the 360 is 3 core at 3.2Ghz its
> > nowhere near as powerful as a dual-core Intel at about half that speed
> > because its based on the old PowerPC architecture - which is why Apple
> > switched to Intel.
> > So like traditional game consoles, its REALLY good at concentrating on a
> > single application (ie the game) but its not so brilliant at
> > multitasking. The sheer slowness of the blade system in certain games,
> > the fact some games you were able to crash the 360 if you brought up the
> > blade while loading, especially while entering a game on live - would
> > seem to backup this.
> >
> > So yeah, I do not think the 360 would work as a PVR nor would any games
> > console. Its all well and good being able to play movies or even surf the
> > web on the 360. However doing something more CPU/HD intensive AND playing
> > games at the same time, its just not practical as it will ALWAYS cause
> > problems. This applies equally to the PS3 or any console.
> >
> > Alex.
> >
> > On Thursday 17 April 2008 19:45:03 PSCG Cleveland wrote:
> > > Maybe I'm just gettin too damn old (finally) then, I'd welcome a
> > > multi-purpose console that could allow me to kill crap for a few hours,
> > > kick back and watch some DVR'ed mindless crap and lemme pop in to check
> > > my Gmail every once in awhile? One simple, fixed cost unit. And the
> > > side bonus... if I was leasing it from AT&T (not buying it) then THEY
> > > gotta replace the sucker when it toasts out! And a 720 comes out? No
> > > problem - take my 360 out and gimme the 720 instead. Just pay for it
> > > over time on the lease vs. dumping everything into the hardware. AT&T
> > > pays for that, we support the software industry instead like the
> > > original XBox gameplan thinking went.
> > >
> > > Again, maybe that's just me these days vs. those who want a game
> > > console and that's about it in one device.
> > >
> > > On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 2:40 PM, PogoWolf <pogowolf@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > That's why I think the Blu-ray player that M$ keeps telling people
> > > > won't be on/for the 360 is true.
> > > > it's not. It'll be for the Xbox 'World' system, that'll have it built
> > > > in, the Wiiimote, web support
> > > > and all the other stupid bull shit that no one cares about on a Game
> > > > machine.
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 2:37 PM, PSCG Cleveland
> > > > <pscgcleveland@gmail.com>
> > > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > That's one concept that came to my mind, ya... And I'm tellin ya,
> > > > > they ain't done with MSTV (formerly WebTV) by a longshot either.
> > > > > This type of device they keep saying PC and 360 continually, but
> > > > > yet the references are leaning toward the 'game console' end of
> > > > > things.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 2:33 PM, PogoWolf <pogowolf@gmail.com>
wrote:
> > > > > > I one handed Wiimote?!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 2:29 PM, PSCG Cleveland
> > > >
> > > > <pscgcleveland@gmail.com>
> > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > OK...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Not only read thsi quick blurb, but LOOK at the picture.
> > > > > > > THEN... click
> > > >
> > > > on
> > > >
> > > > > > > the image and start reading down the patent filing they
> > > > > > > granted. Tell
> > > >
> > > > me
> > > >
> > > > > > the
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > line ain't blurred! Hah!
> > > >
> > > > http://www.engadget.com/2008/04/17/microsoft-patent-application-shows
> > > >-off -wearable-mouse-concept/
> > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > FREEActivate!
> > > > > > > Have you FREEActivated today?
> > > > > > > Reactivate - FREE - FREEActivate!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Join our NE Ohio Groups online!
> > > > > > > -----------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > cleveland.freeactivate.org
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> > > > > > > NEOCafe.freeactivate.org
> > > > > > > -----------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > www.freeactivate.org
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On a hot summer night, would you offer your throat to the
> > > > > > PogoWolf with
> > > >
> > > > the
> > > >
> > > > > > red roses?
> > > > > > ==============================
> > > > > > The Pogowolf
> > > > > > http://pogowolf.wordpress.com (Personal Blog)
> > > > > > Http://www.GamersVue.com (Video Game news, and information)
> > > > > > Http://Computer911.wordpress.com (Computer/Programming/How to
> > > > > > Blog) http://www.cafepress.com/pogowolf (The PogoStore.. Bring
> > > > > > out the Pogo in you)
> > > > > > Http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xbox (The largest/best XBox group
> > > > > > on
> > > >
> > > > yahoo!)
> > > >
> > > > > > ==============================
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > FREEActivate!
> > > > > Have you FREEActivated today?
> > > > > Reactivate - FREE - FREEActivate!
> > > > >
> > > > > Join our NE Ohio Groups online!
> > > > > -----------------------------------------------
> > > > > cleveland.freeactivate.org
> > > > > akronsummit.freeactivate.org
> > > > > lakegeauga.freeactivate.org
> > > > > NEOCafe.freeactivate.org
> > > > > -----------------------------------------------
> > > > > www.freeactivate.org
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > On a hot summer night, would you offer your throat to the PogoWolf
> > > > with the red roses?
> > > > ==============================
> > > > The Pogowolf
> > > > http://pogowolf.wordpress.com (Personal Blog)
> > > > Http://www.GamersVue.com (Video Game news, and information)
> > > > Http://Computer911.wordpress.com (Computer/Programming/How to Blog)
> > > > http://www.cafepress.com/pogowolf (The PogoStore.. Bring out the Pogo
> > > > in you)
> > > > Http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xbox (The largest/best XBox group on
> > > > yahoo!) ==============================
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